Crouch Cancel/SSDI conflict#669

See picture; presumably since I got the CC, any SSDI should be disadvantageous, therefore it would probably be better if the CC would override it. I’m guessing this happened from trying to use Uptilt from the crouch cancel, otherwise I have no idea how I pressed down and up at the same time. Unsure if this is a bug, but reworking the mechanics to negate SSDI during CC seems like it would make things more consistent.

Looks like you CC’d the move (leftstick crouching) but SSDI’d upwards with your rightstick (maybe from an early uptilt input) meaning you took the reduced knockback but did not floorhug

If you had of SSDI’d down you would have floorhugged which would’ve been advantageous.

SSDI enables floor hugging, while CC only does 3 things, Reduces knockback, Negates tipperstun at %s that don’t knockdown and halves hitpause from projectiles. CC can be used together with SSDI to avoid knockdown at %s that usually break floorhug

Oh interesting. Is there a scenario where this would be advantageous? Otherwise, I feel like it just breaks the whole point of holding down. It would also effect gameplay differently across different control schemes. It seems like it would make more sense if CC automatically applied the floorhug as well. I’ve always thought of it as a stronger version where you had to be actionable.

There are a couple of niche sitation that CC without floorhug is optimal.

Say you’re crouching at 10% against an Orcane Dstr, if floorhug was automatically applied with CC you would be put into Knockdown and take extra damage everytime.

Without CC or SSDI, you’re also put into KD/tech situation but you take less damage than the floorhugged version .

If you were to CC the move but either SSDI away from the floor or have no SSDI, you’ll be put in another type of hitstun that doesn’t result in KD, only 4 frames of landing lag if you hit a floor

I attached pictures of each example to help show what I mean. All pics are 35 frames into the Orc Dstr

While there are technically scenarios where you’d want to do this, a primary weakness of floorhugging is that you need to be holding down when hitpause ends. This prevents you from being able to CC for a specific hit timing, then option-select for them doing anything else by starting an action after the last frame you could’ve gotten hit.

And while there are sort of ways to counteract it, needing to keep your left stick down means that you may spend some precious frames stuck in place (like after a tech chase), letting them attack your position with a safer move than they’d otherwise get to do on reaction. It also means that the flug-er won’t always be able to account for the differences between a low-hitpause move, a high hitpause move, or a multihit.

Crouch cancel + floorhug already has enough bonuses over raw floorhugging that removing another weakness is kinda hard to justify imo. It is true that it’s more competing with shielding than floorhugging itself (where shielding is typically superior), but it’s always meant to be something that you have to use mindfully. Like, you can do things like hit Clairen with an aerial, she floorhugs it, then you can crouch instead of shield to avoid extending your grab range + let you punish things from further away on the ground.