Remove the autohit on Orcane Side B#628

New Orcane side b is good but it causes a lot of weird interactions when interacting with the other player. I’d rather have control of when the side b gets to hit rather than having the opponent be able to dictate when i throw out the hit by shielding or dodging the move. clip from songbird

This move is sooo bad, it’s such a massive nerf to his recovery

It’s complex, because yeah, you can Orcane Killer him now by just literally being in front of him and airdodging or otherwise managing to make the move whiff, and it still doesn’t really beat a lot of hitboxes because it goes into a second five frames of startup on the actual tail swipe when it detects a player in range. However, you can’t manually activate the hitbox until seven frames into the “flop”, while the automatic activation can come out immediately, so losing the automatic proc effectively makes the move a lot slower.

As we discussed later on, you also literally cannot grab ledge after side B if someone is shielding too close to the ledge, because you’ll always get the 33 frame big bounce off the shield similar to what empowered side B does. And empowered side B can’t get the faster 18 frame bounce even on a successful hit.

All this on top of a pretty large distance nerf makes the move extremely poor at recovering even compared to the old side B, which is a bit odd, since it was supposed to be a buff according to the patch notes.

Wait you’re telling me it’s bouncing fish but worse? Lol

i am upvoting this because my local orcane told me to, i know he would do the same for me #unbanmelon

Orrrr just make it not autohit when the opponent is invincible?

This is probably an oversight, no reason to take the autohit out altogether

@GoldenStick763 In my example video there, it will ignore Zetter and pass through him if he is mid-airdodge, but because the move takes 5 frames to come out once the swing starts, Zetter has a 5 frame window to airdodge and avoid the hit, which puts Orcane into special fall and unable to reach the wall. With the way the move works now, the move is already committed to stopping because an opponent was there, even though they might not be there when the hit actually comes out. Its massive range makes most of the cases where they just try to move out of range not escape it, but becoming intangible is a big way to mess it up.

Another issue imo is that the swing stalls Orcane in place on whiff, which cuts his momentum from the side b startup. It could help if the swing has its own momentum if whiffed, for a small burst of movement.

Another issue imo is that the swing stalls Orcane in place on whiff, which cuts his momentum from the side b startup. It could help if the swing has its own momentum if whiffed, for a small burst of movement.

Exactly what I was thinking of. In Ultimate bounding fish keep going forward, wether you miss or not. And this is why it’s good. With Orcane in R2, it the opposite, making Orcane stop his momentum while he tries to hit someone.

I would argue that the move is weird anyway and should have been closer to it’s inspiration. Bouncing fish of Sheik is fine because it doesn’t hit early and then it’s an active hitbox wether it detects opponent or not. And Sheik just keep going, the player has a little bit of control of the length of the move. The fact that Orcane doesn’t have an hitbox until it detect someone, to then have another start-up to start the move, and this move make him stop, makes the all move really really weird to use.

I do like it better than the old side b (even if I believe it’s weaker currently) but it needs more work. I do think making it more like bouncing fish of Sheik is all it needs.

Idk what my preferences would be one way or the other, but the move could behave a bit differently depending on if it were manually timed or if it was triggered by the auto-detection. For example, you could have a bit more maneuverability or less loss of forward momentum afterwards if it were triggered automatically. It’d be a bit janky, but it would make it less exploitable without buffing early manual timing.

i feel like the other day i saw orcane being just the ball and not ever doing the attack? is there no way to do this? is that a different move?