Remove Clairen's Tipstun lockout on strong attacks to avoid early deaths#1057

Clairen got a change a while a while back that prevents you from being affected by tipperstun for 30 frames after exiting tipperstun. This is a great way to make sure her comboes don’t end up putting you in cutscenes, but it has a side effect of making it much harder to properly DI her moves if she hits you with consecutive tippers. This is mostly an issue with her forward and down strongs, as she has moves that can tipper combo into them, with the former being able to kill at very low percents if tippered and not DI’d correctly.
https://medal.tv/games/rivals-2/clips/n6zwS6Brc4GKPlFqc?invite=cr-MSxLcjgsMjc0MTkwNTky&v=5
In the clip provided, I tech rolled on the plat after a throw and then got hit by a tipper nair, using SSDI out to try and avoid a followup from a grab or tipper uptilt which would extend the combo. However, my opponent opted to use a forward strong instead, which ended up leading into a tipper since I shifted my character so far outwards. Clairen’s Fstrong startup is frame 11, and because of the tipstun lockout, this meant that I suffered no tipstun and did not have any time to react to the fstrong coming out and change my DI, which led to me ASDI’ing out, DI’ing out, and expiring as the heaviest character in the game at 46% on the side of a hodojo plat to an uncharged strong attack.
Normally I’m very understanding of the skill issue involved in DI’ing clairen’s tipper fstrong terribly and dying early for it, but this situation led to a vague followup opportunity (in which if I did get comboed, I would have racked up much more percent on myself), with no time to react to getting hit by the move and adjusting my DI. I’ve seen this happen in a few twitter clips and people get clowned on for it but there’s a legitimate reason to be trying to escape a followup here and getting caught off guard to lose your stock that early is pretty punishing.
My solution would be to simply exclude clairen’s strong attacks from the tipstun lockout window, as she doesn’t really have followups to combo off of her strong attacks due to their large recovery window, which would preserve the intention of the mechanic to prevent oppressive tipstun comboes without blindsiding the player for simply attempting to escape a standard combo route if their opponent happens to rip the f strong.

A few people I discussed this with have brought up that she wouldn’t have access to DI Mixes that other characters have, which is a fair point but if it isn’t entirely removed, I believe the tipstun should at least be shortened rather than completely absent. I’d be fine if it was a difficult skill check to change your DI rather than it being nearly unreactable online or otherwise, so maybe reducing it to only half or a quarter of regular tipstun could be the move here.

remove the stun completely it is stupid as fuck

“the intention of the mechanic to prevent oppressive tipstun comboes”
I think you have this all wrong. The intention of this mechanic is to allow clairen to do exactly this.

From the patch notes “This reduces the amount of stuns in her average tipper combos, but also gives the opponent less time to DI correctly, so it can both help and hinder each player.”

With proper setup, clairen can mixup your DI. Otherwise you would never ever die to a non purple’d clairen smash attack because there’s no reason to DI them badly. It’d be quite boring if you could always react and DI clairens moves.

Thanks for finding that patch note, I couldn’t remember when they made the change. It does seem that they would want it to be a double edged sword, but I feel like her strongs don’t really need to have strong DI mix given how powerful they are when tippered, and there already being DI mix involved in landing them (forward/back throw into fstrong/ustrong). You’re able to have time to react to getting shine upstronged by zetter because of the fire consumption but the DI doesn’t really save you past 100% because it’s just that strong. Her DI mix out of other moves would still exist but my issue with this whole interaction is that her fstrong is ridiculously powerful when tippered and I’d much rather be put in a bad spot offstage than just outright die for simply trying to avoid getting juggled as lox.

“there already being DI mix involved in landing them” Isnt this for every strong move in the game? Doesnt really mean anything

If anything, just call for fstrong being weaker but its just a risk mitigation thing. You got read 2 times in that clip and died for it and you took the high risk option to avoid more damage but if you DId in or rolled in you there would be 0 way to die in 2 hits but you may take more damage. Choose your poison. Removing it would mean there is 0 risk in DIing away from Clairen until an aerial would kill.

I would be overjoyed if they nerfed fstrong but I figured this would be a more realistic nerf. If the clairens are chill with fstrong not nuking you then by all means go for it dan.
And yeah I’m aware this was a risk I took but I just felt that putting me offstage was a fair tradeoff, I wasn’t expecting to flatout die lol. I def won’t be doing this against clairen again because the risk reward is not skewed in my favor at all